In Episode 08 of Leaders of Tomorrow, the tables turn as Elizabeth Liang Hudak, ‘18, ‘19, interviews LAJF Executive Director Helene Mattera about her quarter of a century’s worth of experiences at Camp Rising Sun, from first year to her current position:

• The transformative experience Helene had at CRS

• The effect that had on her family life

• How Helene “found her people” at Camp

• The belief Helene has in the values that LAJF and CRS are built on

• Helene’s desire to “pay it forward” for future generations of campers

• And more…

Listen now:

Transcript:

Hello everyone, and welcome to Leaders of Tomorrow. I'm your host Elizabeth Liang Hudak. Usually on this podcast, Helene [Mattera] interviews alumni of Camp Rising Sun about their lives, and the impact CRS had on them. Today the roles are reversed, and I will be interviewing Helene.

After attending CRS as a camper in 1997 and ’98, Helene started on a lifelong journey that would eventually bring her back to camp, first as camp director, then as director of programs, and finally, in her current role as executive director of LAJF. CRS fundamentally changed the trajectory of Helene’s life, and for that reason, she has dedicated herself to paying forward the experience to future generations of campers. So to start off, Helene: Paint a picture for us. It's 1997 in Brooklyn, New York, and you decide to apply to Camp Rising Sun. How did you stumble upon camp?

So when my high school, which was a feeder—which is still a feeder school—for Camp Rising Sun: your your school principal, or guidance counselor would nominate you. And I was really eager to apply, because my older brother had gone and I had been really impacted, just sort of watching from the sidelines of him coming home and having these new friends, and we hosted a number of campers from overseas, and that was really eye opening for me. And, at first, I didn't make the cut to be nominated for my school, because my grades actually weren't high enough. And I went to the school principal and pled my case, and then before I knew it, I was invited to apply and it all worked out really nicely.

But in Brooklyn, you know, in my family in 1997, we were, you know—it's a very kind of small-minded situation. Like, I spent all of my previous summers hanging out on my stoop, you know, riding bikes, going to get ice cream. It wasn't—I didn't have any sort of experience like this before. I went to like, the local free day camp at the middle school, but I had never gone to sleepaway camp or anything like this. I had never even been on a plane before. Not that I went on a plane to go to camp, but even just like, it was a very small universe that I lived in.

Definitely. So after you got back from this brand new experience, this whole month long experience, probably more in your time—how did it impact you? What did you take away from camp?

Yeah, so I mean, it completely, let’s say blew up my life, blew up my world in all the best ways. I feel like I was just a completely different person: the way that I saw other people in relation to me, the way that I saw my neighborhood, I saw my family, saw who I wanted to become, you know, was completely different. Something that really impacted me was meeting people from, you know, not only all over the world, but people from different cultural backgrounds, different social classes.

There were people on the spectrum from very impoverished communities where, you know, basic healthcare needs weren't being met, to people whose, you know, families sort of intergenerationally had wealth. And just sort of finding myself on this spectrum of privilege, and of where, you know, where I felt a tremendous amount of gratitude for having, you know, a loving family, and supportive family, to where I really saw the gaps in what was going on for me in my life—and where I had to grow as a person, and even academically and intellectually, where I wanted to evolve to. So being exposed to so many different types of people and their families really helped me to dream a little differently for myself.

Yeah, of course. And that's kind of been the common thread throughout all of these guest interviews on this podcast.

So after you came home from Camp, obviously, you went back to be a second year, and then you're now back again. But that first time after you attended camp for the very first time, what was it like to go home? And what were you like after? You already mentioned a little bit.

Yeah, I think that the most notable thing was my relationship with my mom. We had always been really close. And right before I went to camp, I turned 16 in June and had this big sweet sixteen party, which is very traditional. I'm, you know, Italian-American, and this was something that my mom had been waiting for. And we had spent a lot of time planning the party together, and it really brought us really close. And then when I got back, I had sort of fundamentally rejected the whole concept of that type of lavishness.

And what is really notable is that my mom, paying for the sweet 16, for example—with something way out of their natural income, you know—and my mom's sacrificed a lot, and worked extra hours in order to pay for this. And so me coming home and sort of rejecting capitalism and consumerism and the idea of all of this, she just felt heartbroken. And so she really experienced this loss of our relationship. And, you know, obviously, over time that healed, but it definitely caused a rift in the family. And then you know, her own sense of like, “Do I want my baby to go back to this place that is only going to draw us further apart?” So that was a big thing.

And on the flip side, I think it actually made me much closer with my dad, because all of the intellectual pursuits, and questions, and self discovery, you know, he was really supportive of that, and was really eager to have those type of conversations with me. So I think in some ways, you know, the relationship with my mom was strained, but then I got to have this, you know, what felt like a brand new, exciting connection with my dad.

And then with my friends, I had a really tight-knit, close group of friends. And after I went to camp, I realized something that was so special for me—probably the most critical part of the camp Rising Sun experience for me—was that I felt like I found my people: people who care deeply about the well being of others, people who wanted to make a change, people who saw that the world, you know, there was a lot to fix about the world, a lot to fix about their school community, or their neighborhood. And so by having exposure to this set of people who were really like-minded, it really drew a contrast to what I was experiencing in my friend group in high school.

And so, you know, I shed most of those friends, and that was, you know—it was difficult to say the least. But I had this, the beauty of having this new community, and sort of never looked back. I'm still incredibly close with a lot of the people that I went to camp with.

And then also, you know, over the years—it's now been decades since I went to camp—but I consistently meet new people that fit this mold, of like-minded people who share these values that I have. And so it's sort of like a never-ending treasure trove of people to connect with, you know, in a deep and meaningful way.

Yeah. So, besides this new community and group of friends, among that one has sustained your interest in Camp Rising Sun, and how has your relationship to Camp changed since you first walked onto the campus in 1997? And why do you feel a desire to stay involved?

Yeah. You know, I think that I really believe in the values of the organization on a fundamental level. And for me, that reconnection and reaffirmation of these values of like, our individual wellbeing is improved by community living—like I have, you know, chosen to live in communities. I live in a co-op community in Queens, where it's not just, you know, according to like, the letters of the rules of the co-op, that we share our lives together—but we actually care about one another, and we go out of our way to do nice things for each other. And I even run this like, arts group. It's very camp-like for me, and I also, you know, I seek that type of shared living community and in many different ways, facets of my life.

I find that I stay interested in camp not just for my own nostalgic feelings, but because I continue to learn and grow from being part of this community. I also just fundamentally believe in how we teach young people. I sort of glossed over the part where, you know, Camp for me was this incredible experience. And then I went on to go to Hampshire College—which for me, I think of Hampshire College is like Camp Rising Sun College. There's no test or grades or majors, and you're really pushed to drive your own work, and independently design what it is that you want to study based on your passions. And so Hampshire College allowed me to basically design what ended up feeling like a Camp Rising Sun major, where I studied sort of the child development, education, international relations, urban development. And I pieced that all together to look at how camps and after-school programs can help adolescent development, and help young people grow to be their best in the environment where there's structure, but freedom and independence.

And so this model that promotes youth development—that is something that I keep coming back to, because I truly think that Camp Rising Sun does this so well. And living in the Camp Rising Sun community and having all of these opportunities to practice this independence within structure, you know, the idea of making decisions for yourself, making decisions for other people, having opportunity to reflect on that—like getting constant feedback—really develops these incredible human beings that when they go back into the world, they’re then sharing that.

And so I just I truly love being part of that process of, you know, identifying young people who would benefit from the experience, watching them live it—like I remember watching you, as a camper, I have clear memories of seeing you during project time, and seeing like, I can see your face and seeing the wheels turning in your mind. Like, that gives me such joy to see every summer.

And then I think the reason why I stay involved and why I'm so passionate about being the executive director, is that I see the potential for us to have a greater impact as an organization. Like, we do this work so well and there are so many young people that we're not reaching. And because of that, then, we're not reaching those young people's communities, and their friends and families. Because it really is like a domino effect. Like, you impact one person, and they have this constant impact on the people around them.

And so, you know, the reason why I stay involved today, and I see myself staying in my position for however much longer—you know, for years, I imagine—is that I want to see us do more as an organization and impact more people. So yeah, that's why I stay involved!

Of course. And so how does the fact that you were a camper and you were there and other counselors, were seeing, you know, your own turning of your brain and how you work—how does that inform your position as not only former camp director, but now as executive director of the whole foundation?

Yeah, it's interesting. It's a good question, because I can think of ways that it helps and hinders my work. You know, and as far as helping, you know, sort of the obvious, being able to identify with, “What is the experience of a camper? What is the experience of a second year? What is it like to come back as a camp counselor, you know, and then camp director?” So I think that one thing that my position, as having had each of those roles helps with, is with empathy. You know, when I see a young person struggling on their leadership day, or struggling with the feelings of responsibility or disappointment as a second year, and feeling like “I'm not doing enough, you know, I want this experience to be perfect for the first years.” Like, I truly know what that feels like. I can really empathize around those feelings. What it's like to work so incredibly hard as a counselor—our counselors work really long hours, they put their whole hearts and souls into it. And I know what that feels like, you know?

And then to be able to, you know, work with our camp directors and provide some mentoring and leadership around that, like I get it—I get how hard it is to be a camp director and the millions of things you have to juggle. So I think that that is one of the greatest assets of me being an alum, and having had these other roles is, I feel like I can step easily into their shoes and be empathic.

I think where it hinders—and sometimes it's silly, but like, you know—I then have this lens that can be narrow, of like, “Okay, well, when I was a camper, I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” you know? And I try my best not to pigeonhole anyone into like, you know, believing in what I experienced, or the way that I see it exclusively, of course. But, you know, a funny example is for many, many years, decades and decades and decades, we took campers on hiking trips in the Catskills. And like, you know, there's something that I love is that there's generations of campers standing in like the exact same peaks and taking group photos. And I can't remember—I think I was on staff when we started to have conversations about like, the challenges of the hikes. And I was just really reluctant to get on board with shifting from hiking trips, to doing our like overnight camping experiences at the Red Hook campus. Because I felt like “If the campers don't do this, if they don't hike on these mountains, and don't get pushed in the same exact way, they're going to be missing out on something.”

And that is what motivates I think so many of our alarms to sort of be reluctant to change the Camp Rising Sun experience. but I also now have empathy for that role and an openness to seeing things differently because I was—so fast forward, you know, the decision was made, and the trips are amazing, these camping trips, and you know!

Definitely!

And I mean, they're so incredible. And I think in ways just like leaps and bounds, I don't want to compare, there's no need to compare. I was gonna say “leaps and bounds more intense.” But I was standing in the kitchen, helping scrub pans and pots, because half the campus was gone on the trip. So this is me as executive director, in 2019, maybe, or 2018. And I'm, you know, elbow deep in a pot, and I was having the most lovely conversation with the girl next to me, and she's like, “I'll be right back. The girls just got back from the camping trip, and I've missed them so much.” And my heart is like, “Oh my goodness, like, that's how we felt when the campers went away on their hiking trips.” And when she came back, and when I talked to other campers who had been on the camping trips, the impact was the same. The experience is different, but the impact in what occurred within them, the change, the challenge, the struggle—it was the same, they were essentially the same stories.

And so the takeaway for me is like, yes, having been an alum, having been a staff member, gives me all of this great insight into what the experiences are. And then it also gives me a perspective of like, you know, I've now had 20-plus years’ exposure to camp seasons, and the differences and nuances of each. And so I feel really grateful, because I get this unique perspective of, there are so many different ways to have the impact of Camp Rising Sun. It does not need to be the same schedule—the same daily schedule, the same summer schedule. It can be vastly different, and still have the same result—which is like this transformative, personal, pushing people to think differently, and feel differently and care about others in a deep way.

So yeah, it's a gift and a curse, I guess.

Yeah. So far, we've been talking about camp as most of us know it—running around, you know, going to the camping trip. Unfortunately, a change that's even bigger than the change from the hiking trip to the overnight at Red Hook is what Camp Rising Sun has had to endure this past year and a half, with not actually being on the physical campus. So how has everything we've been through this year—no need to reiterate—but how has that affected your job and how you approach running this program? It's definitely made some changes for the better in my opinion, but it's also very different.

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And we handled it, I think, in a very Camp Rising Sun way. So our staff team came together when we realized, you know, it was going to be impossible to open in 2020. And we began to think, you know, sort of similar to what I was saying just now, about how the daily schedule, the weekly schedule, doesn't have to be the same in order to have the same impact. Our staff designed this 10-day experience, that in so many ways, had the same impact as coming in person. And so for people who don't know: we designed a virtual program, where people who had been selected, and came and participated, and did a variety of activities that had the essence of the Camp Rising Sun experience—and in some ways, were even more Camp Rising Sun, I don’t know, even more “CRS-ey” than even the in-person program.

And, again, the like on the last day of the program, similar to when, you know, campers are deeply emotional and transformed and are wishing the season was longer, like, you know, something that the virtual campers said was, “I wish it was a few more days, like can we have a few more days?” And so that was one thing that was an amazing experience of like, staff coming together, putting together a plan, implementing it, reflecting on it, and wanting to do more of it.

And so we, you know, we're continuing to offer virtual programs in the organization. And one of the things that I love about the virtual model is that we can reach more people in far corners of the world, without the barriers of finance, without the barriers of having to travel. You know, someone can tune in from wherever they are, and be present. And so that's been really enlightening for me, and really special.

And something that I've also loved is seeing campers who participated virtually, you know, join our alumni activities, and like, they've just completely incorporated themselves into the alumni community. And that's so beautiful to me. It gives me such inspiration of like, what the organization is capable of. And something to the same extent with our alumni community—I have truly loved what our alumni coordinator, Elyem Chej, has put together for alums this last year, during quarantine, you know? And I think people were really thirsty for feeling connected, again—to the values of the organization, being connected to people who were like-minded, felt similarly, and people really wanted that. They were craving that during quarantine, and so we put together a variety of alumni activities that weren't just socializing. It wasn't just about nostalgia. It was engaging alumni on our core values. You know, conversations about topics that are important to us, as an organization, as a community of alums. And so that, we got a lot of people who hadn't been involved and connected in a long time, kind of come back to the well, to rekindle their fire. And so it's been wonderful. It's been a silver lining to what has been a really hard time for a lot of people. And, you know, we're grateful for sort of the tangential benefits that has gifted us.

Yeah! So when looking back at your career with Camp and LAJF, and we've talked about what makes Camp so special, but be it in person or virtual, what do you think is the most important aspect of Camp?

Well I’m a little biased. I'm a social worker, and so I very much think about the personal journey and personal reflection that Camp inspires in people. But I'm gonna go with that, as what the most important [thing]—certainly it’s what the most important impact is to me. But when you start to try on different people's lenses, for how they see the world, and how they see themselves, you can't help but reflect on yourself. And I think that the Camp Rising Sun program just forces you to consider and reconsider and reconsider sort of everything, you know? Everything from how you taste food, to how you hear music, and how you hear your own voice in a group. I mean, just like sitting in Project Time, or sitting in Evening Program, and understanding that, you know, as a small community of those six people sitting together in a circle for an hour—like that is a little community—like what is your role? How does your words, how do your behaviors impact other people?

All of that self reflection, for me, is what makes our program special. I never want to say unique, because there are so many wonderful youth organizations that do similar things to what we do. 

Of course.

But I feel like the whole piece of it, this self reflection piece to me is our greatest asset.

Yeah. Reflecting on you, specifically. Helene, what advice might 16-year-old give you today?

[laughs]

I think we could all use some advice from our camp selves.

Yeah! What advice she might give to me today? Oh, I think—I think in a sassy way, she would tell me to not care too much about what other people think. I think adult Helene kind of considers—tries her best to consider—sort of everyone's voice and opinion, and sometimes it's like a detriment. Sometimes I need to listen to myself and my gut, and I think 16-year-old Helene really knew how to do that well.

I wish we could get back to that as well. I could probably use—I could probably use 16-year-old Helene's advice too.

[laughs] And I think if I can flip it for a second, the advice I would give her though—

—Oh, yeah—

—is she was too far on that extreme of not caring what other people thought. I would plead with her to be a better listener and observer. I think she certainly got on that path at camp, but that's what I would advise her to do. Make sure she's listening and seeing.

Yeah, I mean, 16 years old. You gotta cut some slack here.

Thanks. Thanks.

So wrap this up, Helene—it's been great talking to you. On a more profound note, what gives you hope?

What gives me hope? You know, what gives me hope is seeing in other people a spark. You know? Like you can see someone having a hard time, or just being so like, in their own bubble, and not, you know, not considering other people, or just sort of drowned in their own noise. And the thing that gives me hope is seeing that spark in them to want something different, like that first bit of energy that gets put into considering change. And I think that if everyone kind of finds their spark, and finds that impetus for change, you know, there's a very hopeful world out there. 

Yeah! Thank you so much, Helene. I believe that's about all. I believe this is our last episode of leaders of tomorrow. So as the majority of the episode host, for most of you will, our normal host, is there anything you would like to say to the audience as we wrap up?

Yeah, thanks! I mean, this has been a truly fun experience. For me, I've really enjoyed the time I've got to spend with our guests, and I'm really grateful for their sharing their personal stories. And for our listeners, we would love to have you involved in our organization. But wherever you are, in whatever part of the world, you know—take that first step, get involved, do something that brings you joy, that connects you with other people, and find your spark. So thank you to all of our listeners, and I look forward to the next, you know, 90-plus years of Camp Rising Sun, and I hope to get to—one of my personal goals is to, you know, talk to as many alums as I possibly can. So if you're listening, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear your story.

Thank you so much, Helene. Thank you everyone for listening.

Thank you, Elizabeth.

About Helene:

In many ways, Helene feels as though she has been in training for her job since she was sixteen years old. After attending CRS as a camper in ‘97 and ‘98, Helene started on a lifelong journey that would eventually bring her back to Camp, first as a camp counselor, a visiting artist, Camp Director, Director of Programs and finally in her current role as Executive Director of LAJF. As Executive Director, Helene provides critical leadership and oversight in all aspects of our programming and operations.

Helene earned her Bachelor’s degree from Hampshire College, where she studied youth development and non-school based youth programming. She then went on to pursue a graduate degree in social work with a focus on children, youth, and families. Before returning to LAJF as Executive Director, Helene was the Executive Director at St. Raymond Community Outreach, where she organized enrichment and recreational programs for children, youth, and adults.

CRS fundamentally changed the trajectory of Helene’s life, and for that reason, she has dedicated herself to paying forward the experience to future generations of campers.