In Episode 04 of Leaders of Tomorrow, LAJF Executive Director Helene Mattera speaks with Andrea Alexander, Assistant General Counsel at JP Morgan Chase and member of the LAJF Board of Directors. A first-generation American, Andrea’s family hails from the Caribbean, and one of the strongest themes that resonated for her throughout her Camp Rising Sun experience is how much campers who came from all different walks of life ultimately had in common. Andrea and Helene also discuss:
How Andrea didn’t expect she’d be allowed to attend Camp Rising Sun and was pleasantly surprised when her mom said yes.
CRS’s role as an important part of Andrea’s journey towards leadership.
The way Andrea discovered that the loudest person in the room doesn’t always make the best leader.
The personal, intimate conversations that campers share at CRS and how important they are to the camp experience.
That caring for one another is always possible, even for people from vastly different backgrounds and ways of life.
How diversity and inclusion are not the same—and the importance of the latter.
Listen now:
Transcript:
Hello, and welcome to Leaders of Tomorrow. I'm your host, Helene Mattera. We created Leaders of Tomorrow to share a little bit of the magic that happens at Camp Rising Sun. Exceptional teenagers are nominated to attend our program on a full scholarship when they're teenagers and we stay involved in their lives forever.
As the Executive Director of this organization, I get to see firsthand the incredible and inspiring work of our alums and how they are impacting their communities. We hope this series gives our listeners hope and inspires you to think of the potential of your impact.
Today, I'm speaking with Andrea Alexander, Assistant General Counsel at JP Morgan Chase in New York. She previously worked as a lawyer in the Office of the General Counsel at the New York City Administration for Children's Services. Andrea attended Camp Rising Sun when she was 15 in 1999. She and I attended the same high school in fact. I was her camp counselor.
20 years later, Andrea is still highly involved with the Foundation and was recently elected to our board of directors. A theme running through her interview was how to not see the world as divided or to focus on the things which make us different, but rather our similarities. An unexpected friendship from Camp Rising Sun helped her to learn that. Paint a picture for us. It is 1999 in Brooklyn and you decide to apply to Camp Rising Sun. Tell us about 15 year old Andrea and her life.
It was a friend mine in high school at Morrow that had gone to camp the summer before. And I was concerned I was too old, but I remember he came back and was so excited about this experience that he'd had in upstate New York, camping. I was convinced my mom would say no.
So I remember taking the application home, explaining what it was. I may have even applied without telling her, because I thought the biggest thing on my side was that it was free. I'm first-generation American, my family's from the Caribbean and sleeping away, sleeping at someone's home it's a real big no-no. So I was almost certain she'd say no, but again, it was free and I was super excited and my friend had such a great time and I just really wanted to do this thing.
I'd never been asleep away at camp before, and it seemed so all American. And so when I got in and I went through the application process and she told me that I could go, I think even my older sister was shocked. I don't know. I guess I was that kid. I was determined and super involved in school. And I think the free component didn't hurt, but yeah, super determined, outgoing kid.
I had done another leadership program that year, my sophomore year. I was a little... I think I was 15 at the time. Yeah. So I did this program call HOBY, the Hugh O'Brian Youth Leadership Seminar and that was three days. It's for one sophomore. They do it in regions and in all of the States and Hugh O'Brian was an actor. He, I believe, played Wyatt Earp back in the day. So he started this leadership program.
I think that actually helped because it was a three-day program at Adelphi. So I got to go away from home for three days for a long weekend and that was right before camp. And I think that sort of laid the foundation of, "Okay, I'm responsible. She can go." But yeah, I was seeking out those kinds of opportunities, I think at the time.
For our listeners, Andrea and I went to the same high school and so we've known each other a long time. You were certainly not a quiet, shy kid that needed coaxing to get out of your shell. You were already an extrovert, already involved in student government. So for a young person who is already well on their way to being a leader, what did Camp Rising Sun do for you?
Yeah. I think what camp does so well is affords you an opportunity to see the different ways one can lead without putting the visual. I think we grow up indoctrinated with an idea of what leadership is and what a leader looks like and sounds like in their presence.
And so what camp does by allowing for these daily leaders in which a camper has the opportunity to lead camp for the day and having that opportunity, you really do get to observe someone taking ownership of how the community is going to work together that day. And so for the extrovert, the person who I went in there feeling like, "I can own this I'm getting. Everyone's going to listen to me. My day is going to be flawless because I'm loud and I'm strong and I'm an extrovert."
And I remember the day wasn't what I thought it would be and it was so much harder to corral people, to get people in line on time during assemblies and to make sure all of the tasks and chores of the day were completed. It was so much harder than I had ever imagined. And then I remember witnessing people who would characteristically be described as introverts seemingly having a more productive day.
I remember thinking that as an extrovert, things would be a lot easier. And so you get to go to camp and you get to observe more introverted folks having an opportunity to lead and seeing how they lead in comparison. I think I walked away at that age, realizing that it isn't necessarily the loudest person in the room that makes a leader, right?
So everything that I have thought about leadership, the visibility getting to really see someone who might be quieter, shyer, being more effective in their leadership style. That was really great for me. I think it was... Everybody goes to camp and hopefully walks away with many, many life lessons and for me, one of the big life lessons was being loud, being bossy isn't an effective leader.
Sadly, I wish our leadership today got that memo and the opportunity to attend camp and different styles, right? And I'm sure that that introvert had to overcome many things to be successful as that day's leader. But I thought that was a really great life lesson for me and was the start of me sort of being more thoughtful in how I presented myself and the type of leader that I wanted to be.
Tell us about what part of the program really sparked something special for you.
Oh my goodness. I think for me the most memorable parts of camp and boy, there were many, so one of my favorite times was rest hour. Going back to Tent Hill and getting... You didn't think you wanted or needed the time, I think at that age, to be confined, but it turned out to be some of my most memorable experiences, which were really just chatting.
Whether you stayed in your tent or you went to the rock, there's a rock in the middle of the Tent Hill at Clinton and a lot of people would congregate there and chat. And I guess it can go into the evening and night before going to bed, having more time to chat. And why I remember that most, I think in my first tent was one of my camp sisters who went on to be a lifelong sister of mine, my camp sister, Trine from Denmark. I think we shared the same tent for our first rotation. And just getting to know each other.
I mean, there's no less of an intimate time and just say you're about to take a nap or you're about to go to sleep and you're just chatting about your lives and where you're from, and some of the challenges of the day. Maybe if you're homesick, just really getting that time outside of a 60 person room where you're with five or six other people.
Andrea went on to visit her camp sister Trine and her family in Denmark.
I found those moments to be some of the most memorable and where you really do get to connect on a more intimate level where you're not doing a task, you're just sort of being yourself at your most rawest, most vulnerable time of day. Who would have thought that'd been nap time, but yeah. Nap time for 15 year olds.
Tell us more about your friendship with Trine.
Yeah. So I think in those moments you really do get to... And I believe that in essence is what the experience is about. Is that yeah, we're 60 people from all over the world who come together to learn from each other, to discuss and think about things about leadership and being global citizens. But you quickly learn how much more similar we are at that tender age.
And I think that's what makes it such a great program and why it's so important as teenagers, because especially today, it really irks my nerves to here we're such a divided society and it's like, "Yeah, politics is divided. Yeah, sure." People can hide behind some political view or religious view that makes us seem like we diverge completely.
But you're talking about this girl from Brooklyn, whose family's from the Caribbean becoming best friends with this six foot tall blonde blue eyed Dane at 15 thinking, "Well, what could we possibly have in common?" And as you get to know each other through these conversations, it's everything and to this day we travel back and forth.
I get to see her kids grow and thrive. We fight like cats and dogs. We're like sisters where after three days we probably shouldn't be in the same room. And it's just at camp you get that to the point where, when you hear things, especially unfortunately with RBG's passing, you hear like, "She was able to reach across the aisle even in her work with colleagues and go to the opera with someone who thinks differently from her and how these two different people."
And you're like, "I guess we love this idea or the image of there's a dog and a goat that are friends. Can you believe it?" And you're like, "No, these are humans." We're able to love each other despite thinking different things and having different ways of living our lives in different philosophies.
We are not the dog and the goat and we have shared stories and shared experiences, and it's insane that you learn that at 15 and we had that opportunity to learn that, and then somewhere along the lines from adolescence to adulthood we lose that concept. It's as if we have nothing in common and we're truly from opposite sides of the globe. And I think that's something that this program does so well.
I couldn't agree more. I think that for so many young people that they expect to come to camp and meet all of these people who are so different from them only to find out that the differences are very nuanced, and at the core, everyone has the same needs and similar hopes and dreams.
I think what we do learn is that often people's challenges are different based on where they're from and what their families have experienced and how they've interacted and been interacted with. But I love how you say that there's ways to find love in all that.
Absolutely.
One 16 year old Andrea went home after this impactful experience. Did you feel different? Did others around you notice that change in you?
I think it was hard at first, not the integration part because the pluses, as you know, growing up in Brooklyn, we're exposed to all different people. And by high school, I mean, everyone at Morrow had 4,000 students from what I think we used to love to say there were over 50 languages being spoken at any moment. So from a diversity standpoint, it was everything that I had loved about camp, right? The visual.
What you realize though, and what we talk about, I think today, when we talk about diversity and inclusion was like the inclusion part, right? So maybe our friend circles, we found ways of ensuring that they were representative, but it didn't always come to fruition, I think, in the classroom and social circles at school. So to that effect, it wasn't the same.
I think we gravitated as humans to some of the basics, but I remember writing. My hands would hurt for the holidays. The first year I committed to writing everyone a Christmas card. Oh my goodness. And I just never stopped. Well, I stopped writing the Christmas cards because it was costly for a 15 teenager and postage. If people remember, you'd have to then take it to the post office.
1999, no Snapchat, no TikTok, no barely any email. Yeah. It was snail mail. I have a ton of letters, we've a ton of letters. We wrote long letters to each other. It was really nice to get those letters. Yeah. So I think going home, because... And then I think it's worth saying for people in New York, you have a bigger community of people who have a shared experience with camp because there were the 13 or so from the New York area that had gone to the girls camp or the boys camp.
And so we're privileged in that way. I'm sure it's a lot more isolating when you were the only student, either from your country or region. I definitely found ways of staying connected with the folks in the New York area and I don't think I ever stopped.
How did going to camp impact you and your family life?
Good question. Do I think I would have been Andrea without this experience? I think so. I think there was a part of me that was always going to be curious. I think having been raised in a multicultural home, there would have always been an interest in the world being bigger than just the US or New York. What I think camp, the hold it has on me because I think it does. I think it does.
After my first year of camp, my mom let me travel to... From going from not being able to go to sleep away and sleeping over at friends' houses. Okay? So just to give you some context, as I said in the beginning, didn't really encourage that in my home to let a 16 year old travel to Denmark by herself for three weeks to stay with Trine and her family. My mom let me do that and it was the following March after camp.
Wow.
I think it was spring break or something that I could go for that long. Goodness. I think after the first... So we stayed in Copenhagen. Trine met me in Copenhagen and Lena, who was a camper from the first year of Clinton in 1989, if my memory serves me correctly, from Denmark, let us stay with her in Copenhagen.
So two teenage girls in her studio apartment for a week before we then would travel back to Jutland where Trine's family lived in and spend the rest of my time there. It was wild. It was wild. I think I ran out of money the first week because I obviously have no concept of the Danish Krona and the few dollars that my mom let me take. So she had to wire Lena money.
I think it even transformed my family. And so even though my sisters didn't have that experience, I think it really opened the doors for them as well. Because here I was traveling the world as a teenager at 16 to go to some strange... I mean, Trine had stayed with my family and family fell in love with Trine and it's this global community that my family embraced.
That's what this program does. That's what it affords you if you really allow yourself to take advantage of all that it has to offer. And I never stopped. I mean, my husband to this... We traveled a lot pre-COVID and there are some times where he's like, "Can we just go somewhere where you don't know anyone?"
I don't know. Can you, Andrea? Is there a way where you can get anywhere where you don't know someone?
And there's almost nowhere in the world where we can't go and not be able to connect with a CRS person? We went to Rome decade ago and we... I just reached out to the Roman Alumni Association, to the Italian Alumni Association and people responded. We had dinner with two guys from the '80s. And I didn't know them personally, but they started telling stories of going to camp in '84 and '85. And it turns out one of the guys was the uncle of my camp sister from '99.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. And it just was so lovely. And so while my husband says that and just he benefits from it. He benefits from the program. We went to India and spent a week with my camp sister from '99, Reshma Kane. And I mean, what better way to see a country than through the eyes of people who live there. That's what this program affords. So I can't get away from it because it's everywhere.
It's there for you as much or as little as you want to take advantage of it. I'm an alumni of a few different leadership youth programs and jokingly people they all kind of have their own little cultish-like way-
Yeah. For sure.
And maybe to our fault, we don't do that. It really is a space where you're here, you're engaged because you want to. And whatever you got out of it, we hope is lifelong. And when ever you're ready to return, we're here for you. This is the only program like that that I've been a part of.
I mean, I remember being 16 at camp and hearing older alumni come to visit and saying things like, "We're interested in you for life." Or, "If you ever need anything, you could reach out to me." Or, "Keep in mind kids that when you grow up and you travel, you can always just open the alumni directory," which at the time was this little blue book that had everyone's contact information in it.
And now we have this online database that you search for alumni. But I remember being so skeptical at 16 and again, I felt so different from my own family. Trusting and knowing that there was a community out there that you don't personally even know them, but who would help you nonetheless, and they actually did follow through on some of those promises.
Not only did they help me eventually think about college opportunities or careers, but they opened up their homes to me. And I've had, just like you, so many experiences where you can just can't help, but just be amazed and appreciate how generous people are with their time and their resources, with their own stories and life. But it is this network of people who have your back all over the world.
Absolutely.
There's just so many people that are part of our community that would do just about anything for you, not even knowing you personally, but just because you had this shared life experience of having gone to Camp Rising Sun.
Yeah. And I think to that vein, it's the same thing I'm thinking about with other organizations that I've been a part of that are equally as wonderful with wonderful missions, but that require a little bit more of you in the immediate, right? Or you feel like there's always some solicitation of something, some expectation of a return.
It is because we just don't operate like that. There isn't... You don't owe this organization anything. Is it nice to donate? Do we need things to continue to keep the doors going so other young people have this opportunity? Absolutely. But I think from its very foundation the mission is really that servant leadership and a part of that is allowing the individual to gain what they gain from it and to really want to be a part of it, but whenever they need it, it's there for them.
I think that's something that's so unique and it makes it so beautiful. And so yeah, I think you're right with that. All the fun without the kind of obligatory component that a lot of other organizations, not that it's a fault, but may require as part of engagement.
And now in your career and your work, could you tell us a little bit about what you do and then how you find time to supplement that work with your service projects?
Oh, good Lord. I don't know. I'm an attorney. I work in-house for a financial institution. That is my profession. My passion is youth engagement, leadership, social justice. And again, fostered by everything I learned from camp and how beautiful the world is and how much we need people to just be there for each other.
Andrea is a tireless advocate for social justice, volunteering much of her time with programs in New York City.
Pre-COVID, it was post-work volunteering, whether it's voter reform, or mentoring, or financial literacy workshops at the YWCA, the community service component and volunteerism, which I must say Helene, I don't know, and maybe it's just me—I don't even think we do nearly enough to advertise that that component is so entrenched in us as Camp Rising Sun people of just how much we give in that way.
I find out in fact that a lot of the different opportunities that camp brothers and sisters around the world are doing, and I'm always in awe of how people find time to do these other things plus their day job and families.
I think I supplement my passion for those things, for social justice and for community service outside of work, but always bringing to work because that's where I spend most of my time the idea of servant leadership, right? So being a part of a team, driving things to completion and doing it with a smile. Being the light in the room.
Yeah. I think that is so important. For me running this organization in a way I'm just super lucky that I get to do work that is constantly emotionally satisfying, right? I get to work with young people. I get to work with really inspired mission-driven staff. I get to spend my time talking to wonderful people like you.
I'm so spoiled, but I always admire people who have a career who then can also devote their free time in service to others. And so I really appreciated learning about the volunteer work that you've done. In general our alums are so impressive with the things they get involved with, the initiatives they take and I think that is truly part of our mission as an organization.
We make this investment in each camper with the hopes that they will then shine that light, like you said. I love how you said the light in the room that you know they will shine that light wherever they are and however they're passionate about. But that they are creating a ripple effect, which then has a greater impact.
The way that you said earlier that it impacted not just you, but your family. And so now as an adult in your career, you're shining your leadership lights and that I'm sure is impacting colleagues around you, who then hopefully will impact other people. So it's just this constant paying it forward type of experience. So when we work with young people, age 15 or 16, the impact is long. We don't even know sometimes what the impact is going to be just from having that one summer with a young person.
Absolutely.
So now looking back, what advice might you give 15 year old Andrea?
Oh boy. So I kind of feel like 15 year old Andrea peaked at 15. She was so serious. My mom used to call me Hills for Hillary Clinton. That takes on different meanings now, but I had so much passion, drive, so serious. Not that I don't have those things now, but it's almost out of order, right?
I think I have grown to take life a little less seriously because it is so overwhelming, right? And to really pace myself for sanity, for survival. 15 year old me wanted to do everything and take on everything. And so I think if I could go back, I would tell her to have more fun. I had so much fun at camp. I really did. And I think it's a safe space and so it was easy to let go.
But then I think back in school onto college, I just felt this need to be this ambassador that was always serious and a great representative of whatever the cause, whether it was be that young strong black girl who speaks her mind and cares about people and doesn't want to see injustice and speaks up for things.
And I'm not saying this, even as a pat on the back. I really do think it prevented me at times from being a kid, the way that I got to be at camp. And so I would go back and just try to get her to be a little less serious, a little less intense and a little more 15. You don't get that time back.
And what do you think 15 year old Andrea would think of you and where you are now?
"You're not running for office or you haven't run for office yet. You have a kid? You're married? Oh my gosh." No. I think she would love all of the places in the world that I've gotten to go and all the people at camp that I got to visit, because that was something I think I promised myself at 15, was to visit as many camp sisters and brothers that I could, and I still have a long way to go, but I am so happy.
COVID hindsight, right? Is never thinking I didn't have enough money for that trip traveling differently, but going, right? So maybe not being able to stay in a high-end location, but getting to see these places, maybe... I'm not going to call out certain airlines globally that are very budget and sucking it up, taking that flight with no bathroom or water, but getting to see the world!
Well, I was just thinking about, you lived in a tent for several weeks during the summer, so that kind of breaks you down as far as well roughing it as a camper. You can handle discomfort. "I'll be okay. I'll get by."
Exactly, exactly, exactly. And so I'd like to think she's happy with who I am, but knowing that there's still so much more that I want to do. And honestly, Helene to get to a place like you, where you're able to marry your life's work and your passion as a career. And I think that's something I'm still striving to do. Not that I don't get to live my true self every day, but it would be nice between the waking hours, the daylight hours to be able to really put everything into it.
Right.
Both the legal side and the mission-driven work. And I think I have her in the back of my mind reminding me that it's a long journey and we're on our way. So I hope she's proud.
Well, I feel like my instinct is to say, "You know what? I'll put you in touch with X, Y, and Z alum who is doing that work." But I'll tell you offline about that.
Thank you.
Andrea, this has been a difficult year for so many people. Can you tell our listeners what gives you hope?
Oy vey! You know, this whole conversation, I don't want to sound wishy-washy, and anyone listening, I imagine, if they haven't gone to camp, they're listening and they're like, "What is this organization? And are they trying to sell this to me? Because they're just going on and on about it."
It's free! You can't sell it!
There is no selling it. It is one thing I've done in my life that I've never felt any hesitancy in advertising. Sometimes there's organizations you love but you know that there's some drawbacks there. I can't tell you one. I mean, I'm not kidding.
And so what gives me hope is that we're still around and that people are donating and people are giving and people are involved and engaged. I mean, you can't go to camp and not then become that person that meets a friend's kids or a colleague's kid and you're like, "Are you CRS material?" Or, "Does that kid need CRS?"
With this one, they could have gone to Camp Rising Sun and had they only known about it.
Exactly. Exactly. And they become your friend.
Right.
And you worked, or a colleague if you're so lucky, to engage and really get to know that person. But, I think then that would give me hope. Is that, one, we're still around and we're not still around because we need this program until we've end something, right? A lot of nonprofits exist to eradicate something, and then what do they do?
Right.
We survive because our mission is lifelong. Our mission transcends time and space. It's about showing, like we talked about in the beginning. We're not the dog and the goat. We are people. We are people with shared experiences. Of course, we have disagreements, but at its core we want, for the most part the same things, right?
Health, wellness, clean air, to laugh, to love, and so that's the human condition. And I'd like to believe because of the many people I've met through this program, that there are a lot of people doing a lot of good and making small sacrifices for another camp person, a neighbor, a stranger, their kids so that we can keep thriving. And also for my kid to be able to be a legacy one day.
I want this program to go on. I want our communities to continue to see the benefit in ensuring leadership opportunities for young people so that I think everybody's talking about it today of how important the voice of the youth are in holding us all accountable. So I hope they keep doing that.
We all need to have things in our lives which give us hope. Like Andrea, you can give your time, treasure, and talent to ensure the future of Camp Rising Sun, or find a local nonprofit that you have passion for. You can learn more about the Louis August Jonas Foundation and Camp Rising Sun at www.lajf.org.
Thank you for joining us today. And you can find all the links and show notes for today's episode at wwwlajf.org/podcast. Remember to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform to hear more inspiring stories of leadership, connection and hope.
About Andrea:
Andrea Alexander serves as Vice President, Assistant General Counsel, for the Global Financial Crimes Legal Department for J.P. Morgan Chase in New York City. An advocate for social change, she was elected to the LAJF Board of Directors in September, 2020, is a volunteer member with Common Cause, NY & Brooklyn Chapter, and volunteers with the YWCA of Brooklyn. She earned her Juris Doctorate from Tulane University in 2010 and served as a legal intern for the National Labor Relations Board while in law school.
Connect with Andrea in the CRS Alumni Group on LinkedIn.